Judas and Jess on Online Findom Part Two – Smart Sex, Smart Love

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Did you know that Online Findom is when a submissive person feels aroused as he opens his wallet to his Dom? Listen here to Part Two of Joe’s chat with Findom Master Judas and Findom Dom Jess as they discuss what it’s really like having a submissive spin the ‘Cash Wheel’. “To a degree, I would consider myself a sex worker,” says Judas. “Even if there is no sex involved. Everything I do is consensual, even if I rape their wallets.”

Want to read more on the topic? Check out my article on Psychology Today: http://bit.ly/2MIsw8E

Speaker 1:        Welcome to smart sex. Smart love. We’re talking about sex, goes beyond the taboos and talking about love goes beyond the honeymoon. I’m dr Joe court. Thanks for tuning in.

Speaker 1:        welcome back everyone. This is part two of our financial domination episode from last week. Um, and that’s also called fin Dom. When turning over one’s money is a turn on, many men and women have discovered that being forced, quote unquote, forced to pay someone to verbally abuse and command them to perform degrading tasks can be sexually satisfying. My guest this week is fin Dom, master Jay. Judas Christ has found that there seems to be no shortage of people who long to be dominated, humiliated, and relieved of their money. Judas a K a demon daddy from Portugal has made his Mark with these consensual human ATM kink transactions experienced in online fin. Dom Judas is a moderator at a male to male Finn Dom website masters, cash.com. We’re also going to be joined this week too by Jess, a female. Um, who has, I’m going to talk about her experience with dominating man being a fin Dom herself with men, fin subs. They’re called. Welcome Judas, and welcome Jess. Hello. Hello. Let me ask you about this question. Let’s just start out right away. How is this different than sex work, prostitution or escorting?

Speaker 3:        There’s no sex involved at all. Under any circumstances. There’s no sex or talk about sex. I mean, there’s talk about denial of sex. Like you’re never going to have it, but never, ever, ever anything that has to do with sex. Then what would somebody want this if you’re never going to put out? Ah, I think I’ve decided they do. They like being denied is what it is. They like being shamed. They enjoy the feeling of feeling bad about themselves instead of feeling bad about themselves. It’s a turn on for them. Psychology is a finicky thing, right? So then you fix the head, the shoe, Judas.

Speaker 4:        Oh yeah. Obviously. Um, again, um, if, if everyone listened to, to debark one, I’m a straight, um, cash master or offend Dom, a male fin dumb. So they want the unattainable. They never get the sex that, that will never happen. So they never see you naked.

Speaker 3:        No. That’s part of the allure actually is the fact that you’re never going to, yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 4:        Then there’s people that actually do it while they do that offend on things. So, uh, but that I wouldn’t call it straight fin dumb or not straight up as in, in sexual orientation. Not that, but, uh, I wouldn’t call it fin dumb only then there’s some kind of like exchange of services, but when it’s only pure fin Dom and wonder, obviously I don’t deliver something, but the sub is denied of it, then there’s no sex. Right.

Speaker 1:        You know, I gotta tell you guys, um, I can just hear therapists saying, well then why would they want to be denied in the shame and then, and the feel bad about themselves as just said, and what we know, I know this is, it’s their kink. It turns them on. It’s not real. You’re not really rejecting them.

Speaker 3:        No, exactly. Right. But it’s a, it’s an agreed upon thing. That’s why they’re coming to you is for that purpose, for you to deny them and they’re trying and they’re trying and they know they’re never going to get it. And there’s something about that that is enjoyable for them. There’s a huge community with all about caging someone’s penis. Okay. You’ve got a defined, as you both know about, what does it tell us? Oh, I want to hear about her cause it’s okay. So I did have a submissive that I knew it. We were, we were very, very, very, we’re still friends now. I’ve known him for 15 years, you know, so, uh, anyway, he was my, uh, sub and would just give me money and we would go out to lunch and then he would pay my rent or give me money for that or whatever.

Speaker 3:        And uh, you know, we would hang out, drink wine, never have sex, anything like that. So later on, probably about two years after we had been in like the, you know, dominant and sub relationship, which isn’t an actual boyfriend, girlfriend relationship, just so we’re clear. Uh, good to know. Yeah. It’s more of a transactional, uh, relationship with a purpose. Purpose for me, money, purpose for him. Shame. Uh, anyway, so he, yeah, yeah, exactly. He had asked me to put him into a, um, what are they called? I can’t think of it right now. Uh, what are they called? Yeah, it’s like a contraption that goes around your like balls that hold onto your cage that said, Oh yeah, okay. Yeah. So it goes around, you know, your boys and then it blacks your penis into this little cage to where you can’t get an erection.

Speaker 3:        So it’s, so it’s like the thing that goes around your penis, but there’s, you know, it’s sanitary enough. Like you have the end of it, the head of it basically like comes out a little bit and that’s where you urinate from. So you’re not peeing all over this thing, but it’s also stopping your penis from getting an erection. Well, yeah, that’s the point. And so that’s part of the point. And then the other point is, well, I can’t please myself until you let me out of this. So it’s a whole control thing, right? So it’s okay while you’re grounded from playing with your penis until I come back and release you from this thing and then you know you can do whatever you with it until we catch it again and they have to pay you for it. Oh yeah, no they do. Right. So I had the key on my key chain. What if you go to the airport? Well, I mean I wasn’t flying anywhere but [inaudible] go through the models. I mean that’s not supply that. Oh right.

Speaker 4:        I have someone ski. I’ll let them advocate if they’re far away. If, if they’re close enough, I’ll have to keep it somewhere else. But I’ll, I’ll always try to have two keys cause I’ll never know, you know, I mean if I lose that I have to go someplace avid.

Speaker 3:        That’s true. Well I mean it’s good for him, but Dan, it’s a free session, you know? Oh yeah. She did not have a copy. So he’s close. We’re 20 minutes away from one another. They could just in case something happened, you know, an emergency situation, you need to let the beasts out or whatever. It’s like you own him. Oh yeah. It’s exactly what it is. That’s all it was about was ownership. Him being mine, him paying me for him to be mine, even though he wasn’t mine, but he was trying to be as much of mine as he could. Yeah. Okay. So I just learned from this, I mean, I’ve heard of this, but I didn’t know what was to keep the guy small penis stop interaction that I knew.

Speaker 4:        The smaller the binos the better for the humiliation value.

Speaker 3:        Right, exactly. Because he feels like his penis is so small. Then you can make fun of it and then you’re sitting there looking at it and you’re fixing this thing to it and you’re making fun of it.

Speaker 4:        I mean, it’s a, it’s a cage on a, on a deck. So it’s just funny for say if she’s see it. Yeah. Weird.

Speaker 3:        And they enjoy you. Enjoy your life. It’s fun. Yeah. It was fun. The laughing part is actually fun. Yeah. And to know that I’m not going to break him because I’m, you know, making fun of a small penis. Like, he wants me to do that. So when you can do something like that and you know you’re not hurting somebody, it makes sense.

Speaker 4:        Yeah. I like it cause I want to go really far and I want to see how much they like it.

Speaker 3:        Okay. So you’re really, you, you left get off on, on the [inaudible]

Speaker 4:        Bain Valley or the emotional pain value knowing it’s well received on the other half so I can go even further on, right?

Speaker 3:        Yes. It’s so important that every time you say that, that people understand, you know, that are in Tennessee

Speaker 4:        to be, that’s what I’m trying to be really, really, uh, assertive about my words.

Speaker 3:        No, you’re good. No, you’re good. But I want people to know that the pain that the person feels in the shame and be left at the even cry, they like it. Right. The whole point of doing this and that’s what they want

Speaker 4:        at any point. I mean they again, right. If Ricky, if they had a key at there, if they’re not stupid enough to send only one key, cause then there’s human. Um, obviously you need to have some type of limits yourself. Right. Uh, I wouldn’t send a key if I would have my little penis gauged, I wouldn’t send, I wouldn’t send ’em a key only one to someone. I would always have a key to myself even if I wouldn’t say it to the Dom, I would have it just in case if I want to run, if I want to out of it, we’ll just AV out of it because it, again, it shouldn’t really be 24, seven so if you want out of it or if he doesn’t really agree to it, this should be able to stop it. I would tell you I, the only thing I disagree with because you said that in the last one.

Speaker 4:        I think if somebody wants 24, seven and they have the money and the time and the ability, I don’t have a problem with that. You know, I don’t think that that’s pathology necessarily. I mean I don’t either. I don’t have a problem cause I do it with, with some the Mo, the ones I own, I talk to everyday and almost like the me in the morning and afternoon and then at the noon if I don’t talk to them more. So I do own people and uh, that comes with a huge responsible Bard. Like I get really disappeared just like that. Cause I have people that are always looking up to me or asking for advice or really just expecting me to tell him to go pee to tell him to go weed too. There’s a lot of control involving this. Oh, I didn’t know that. Yeah. Okay. So what kind of control?

Speaker 4:        Like, so they’re, they have to ask permission to you to pee to yeah. Okay. Yeah, I do that. When they really want control, they have to put it on notes. Oh, when they eat, when they pee, when they are spend any type of money they have to ask when they want to spend money. Normally African troll of Derrick council, I’ll see it. Um, how do you have control? Do you mind saying what? Like they normally they own, do not ever real controlled to not be inside and account. I can either control someone else, computer, uh, with team viewer or any desk does two types of software that are used to remotely control a computer with their permission. I want to make sure everyone hears the shit they need to send me. They need to send me to code. Yes. Uh, first the ID and then the password.

Speaker 4:        So it’s all permitted. But again, uh, if I don’t want to do that and I find myself doing more of this instead of that, uh, I have them having all their, uh, paying apps, sending me notifications in email. So I don’t really have control, but I have control of what goes in and comes out. Okay. And they give you that control I tell you. Yeah. So I can see it. So what about race and $5 in Ikea. Okay. And why, why is that important though? How does that turn them on that you see all their spending that turns them on? Cause they want to be budded, budgeted. Uh, the thing about money and the financial control is that mostly they want me to control all their, their money. There’s a lot of people that say this and then don’t really get to do it. It’s just again, to get off. And then, um, they just probably, uh, either are caught or don’t have the time or just don’t really want to go through it. But then there are people that really do it, like have a, a weekly fee, right. On Friday, normally he’s Friday fact acts and masters cash. So every, uh, sub pays their tax for being a fag. So day Bay, they attack their taxes to, to the Dom. Day one, two. Yep. Again, the ones I own Beda taxes to me, uh, and I have them doing it either weekly or monthly,

Speaker 1:        and they enjoy this and they’re getting off on this. And you said you don’t, you get off, you don’t, you’re not getting off on them. You’re getting off on the experience of doing this to them,

Speaker 4:        right. Yeah. I mean I’m getting off of the total control of someone on everything we’ll control of where someone’s live over over someone’s, uh, routines cause that will mold them, uh, if it is done properly and with time.

Speaker 1:        Yeah. So you like to be looked up to looked at as the alpha in their life.

Speaker 4:        Exactly. And I try to do my best to, uh, try to motivate them. And this is weird for most people. Uh, cause fin Dom can be done right. Uh, this can be done in a way, uh, of acceptance. I can make someone really accept themselves as I let them accept all this, like, suppose dark and twisted, um, images they have or desires they have. They’re not twisted if they’re not doing any harm to anyone. And if there’s nothing wrong about it, legally they’re not doing anything wrong. Right. And if they’re doing it, they’re not doing anything wrong. It should be normalized. So they should feel good about it.

Speaker 1:        It’s very therapeutic. I always tell therapists, it’s like children doing play therapy. This is play therapy and very therapeutic for people.

Speaker 3:        It is an actually one of the sub that I was just speaking about. I, he had a really bad history with dating the wrong woman that got him in a lot of trouble and screwed him over royally. Um, and it was just cause he was so submissive. So during that time it also kept him away from that because you’re controlling that part and it’s like, Oh, okay. So if he meets somebody, then you’re like, Oh well what about her? And I mean it can get to a level where you’re like, no, don’t date her. She’s not going to be good for you. Go and see this other person. Or what about this person? So, and I know you would think it would be irresponsible to give control over someone else’s decisions to another person. But if you’re making poor decisions and you’re prone to doing that, it’s actually a good thing and you’re going to end up being a better person because

Speaker 1:        well now it sounds like my job, right? I’m a therapist. People pay me and I give them this advice. I guess in some ways. I’m a fun fin dumb. I’m, I’m being honest about it. Yeah. Oh my gosh. But you know what I love about what Jess just said, this is really good. He’s this submissive guy is meeting all the wrong women and they’re taking advantage of him, but he’s, it doesn’t get off on that, does he? No.

Speaker 3:        He gets off on what is, he gets off on not getting actually hurt, but the role playing of being treated like crap. Right. You know, he meets you and you’re intentionally doing it, but you’re responsibly doing it so differently. It’s no, it’s not to hurt him or to, I mean obviously it’s to get monetary things, which was the same thing that they were doing, but it’s in a different manner. It’s, I actually care about him. You know, we’ve been friends for 15 years now and this was years ago, so we didn’t get off on it. Oh, of course I did. How fun. It is, like, have somebody come to you and expect you to give them answers.

Speaker 4:        No one has no idea. No. N

Speaker 3:        it is a high, it definitely is a high, I mean, Oh no, I’m more of like a, it’s more, it’s mental. It’s mental. Yeah, exactly. So it’s definitely a mental high and uh, the, you know, there’s something that just makes you feel good about having control over somebody else, but in a responsible way. It’s not detrimental to that person. It’s a give and take in the end. So granted you’re the Dom but you’re also giving, so everyone’s giving, everyone’s taking. How do you do that? Well, I mean, uh, for financial Dom, I don’t really, I mean I’m communicating with them so I personally don’t have one. Um, I don’t know if other people do. Huh?

Speaker 4:        Either they run away cause they’re just the one, they’re the ones sending. Again, we’re not controlling it. We’re not like pressing a button and it comes out money. You know, it’s not like that. We have to work it, it’s all to them and save now 70, thereby arounds or having wheels do like wheel of fortune too, to see how much they send a lot of weight. People won’t know what that is. There’s a cash wheel right, that you spent just making a wheel of fortune, right? The wheel of fortune that has certain values and it randomly picks one and then they have to pan be used as a cash wheel. Yeah. They have to be, or they have to pay and do a certain task or they just have to do the desk or at a like, it’s a playable thing. Everyone can do whatever they want about with it.

Speaker 4:        And it’s real easy to set up. Um, and it’s a playful way of getting that again. Uh, even though I’m the one with my cell phone, uh, Olding the wheel and clicking the button and the other person is watching me through his webcam together on the other side, I’m not the one clicking the button clicking scent. Right. So ease the one. So there’s no need for an actual safe word when, whenever he wants to stop you stops it. Yeah. So it’s, it’s really direct about it. And I normally even ask, ah, should I take more? Should I take less? Uh, uh, and then, and it, it comes with the flow. Some, some send more, some send less depending on what they have. That’s it. What’s, this

Speaker 3:        has surprised you the most in doing this? Like you thought, Oh my God, I that I didn’t know that. That’s very unusual to me.

Speaker 4:        Uh, first of all, the cages we talked about, I had no idea. I had no clue. And, and the abuse of poppers, uh, the popper abuse, I had no clue as well. Um, I didn’t you, uh, also in, uh, the gay community’s pretty common to stick something up your urethra to feel pleasure? Yeah, I, I had, um, yeah, I had no clue, uh, that, that could be good. Uh, for someone, uh, everything else related to BDSM or, um, pain-related things wouldn’t be that shocking. But that mostly, and then the, the, the, the, just the thought of someone being actual property for someone. When I started and I joined masters, gosh. Um, it was really weird to see the subs with the Dom’s names on chat. Like, um, imagine my, what someone that’s from me, I will be my dog. So a Judas sub dog for example.

Speaker 4:        So I’m on chat, there’s a dog, there’s a guy, a person typing in chat, bark, bark, bark, bark, bark. While someone else will wait to give him permission and that makes him send money and to see the person’s doing it and then see them actually come on. And they actually disguised as an animal, um, normally in latex or leather, um, as dogs and like that really happening, not really, not really being just the thing they’ve talked about really happening in my, in my front, really, really amazed me at the time and all that kinds of things. Uh, I’m amazed every single time I come on or I come online cause there’s always something new. I mean there’s always someone that don’t know what they are into or that, that they know that world war they are into and it’s really weird and um, common to them or really, really normal. But then yet again, it’s a really, uh, shocking thing to most,

Speaker 1:        right. But, and they’re getting aroused by the whole thing and it’s the, it’s the money that’s erotic, but then there’s the humiliation is a power trip and the surrendering and all the stuff and the unexpected. I would consider myself a sex

Speaker 4:        worker to a degree cause I work around sex. I work around the idea of sex, even if it is denying it. Right. Or if in a, if it is, uh, telling someone that I won’t do it or that I would like rape their wallets for some,

Speaker 1:        yeah. So there’s always some type of tension. I really love what you just said. You’re a sex worker. Even when it’s about denying someone sex, it makes so much sense because for that person, not you, but for the other person, it’s sexual for them, but there’s no exchange of sex. There’s no genitals. You never show yourself. Right. You don’t pull your penis out. You don’t have, right. You’re just their dress. They may, right. The other person might or no, normally I want him to, I want him to, I want them naked. Make themselves with things somebody might say somebody,

Speaker 4:        have you, have you ever been totally naked in front of someone that you don’t want to be naked in front of? Okay. Yeah. So the humility, it’s not a good feeling. It’s used in prisons to, to, to make people uncomfortable into tortured him.

Speaker 1:        Mostly your most vulnerable. Yeah. So that makes sense. Cause I was going to say Jews, some people may say you want them to get naked, come on, you’re gay. You’re just denying it now you’re saying [inaudible]

Speaker 4:        I don’t want to, I I want, I want them to get naked cause I want him to feel vulnerable that they can hide anything. Right. Even if they have a large penis, it doesn’t really matter. They’re naked. Cause I told him to get naked and he’ll know whatever I want to. So from that point on they get aroused in it.

Speaker 1:        Right. And naked. And the risk is you’re not going to do this. Right. But the risk is you could be recording them, you could take pictures. It’s vulnerable. Yeah. Obviously. Right. And they’d probably enjoy that. Even if it’s not me. Someone else could be, Oh, that’s true.

Speaker 4:        If it’s not a one on one session, if it is online, they’re on masters cash. Cause that’s a, there’s a chat room, uh, with webcams there. Um, so we normally latch at, um, throughout the day. Uh, so there’s a lot of things going on there. Uh, and uh, we see a lot of things. That’s all. Virtually everything is consented. Obviously everything is consented. They’re there because they want to, they’re not obliged to be there. There’s not one pointing a gun at them and saying go there and do that. No, that doesn’t happen. Uh, so it’s, it’s consented. But again, uh, they’re, they want to be Gore stupid. They want to be forced into it.

Speaker 1:        Yeah. They want to feel forced. So it’s a consensual not consent consent thing. Yes. So this is a thing. Consensual non-consent we’ve talked about another podcast too, is I’m consenting for you to do whatever you want to me and uh, but it’s, it’s still my consent. Yes. So there’s can be a surprise element, which in sex anyways and just even vanilla sex, the element of surprise, the element of not knowing is erotic. So why wouldn’t it be in, in kink, BDSM, fin, Dom, you know? Exactly. Exactly. So what are some, we’re going to wrap up. Would either of you be willing to share some final thoughts of something we didn’t cover and you thought, you know, people should also hear this too.

Speaker 4:        First of all, I don’t think that no one should enter this. And in order to get free, uh, easy money or, uh, easy cash, uh, cause, uh, it’s not as easy as it seems. Uh, go ahead and try to make an account. You may be pretty and get a lot of followers, but yet again to people that actually will pay you will not be that high. Uh, and you should always do it responsively because even though there are a lot of people that do it in a consensual way, obviously there’s a lot of people, there are after self-destruction. There are after all someone else to take the blame or just too damn, not feeling the blame for, uh, destroying themselves financially. And that should be an act always done with responsible in a responsible way and always seeing people as people.

Speaker 1:        Thank you. Judas, how about you Jess? What would you,

Speaker 3:        uh, exactly what he said, especially don’t get into it just for money. Uh, I sort of fell into it and money kind of came with it. So, um, but I mean you’re, if somebody gives you enough power to be in control of their mind, don’t, you know, take advantage of that. Be very careful with that because regardless, um, people are kind of fragile, so don’t break them. Please be careful and play responsibly.

Speaker 1:        Right. Play responsibly. Of course. Definitely in all. All right. So Judas, again, tell us where people can find you cause they’re going to want to, if after listening to this, they may want to talk with you.

Speaker 4:        Oh yes, wonderful. They can find you on Twitter at demon daddy, Judas. They could also find, find me on Instagram at Rodan dot sick dot F V C gay. I’m sorry again. Yeah, it’s like that. I can say the word [inaudible] really? It’s like that would, if he, um, they can actually, they can also find me@mastersgas.com and normally on life GAM every day there, uh, as I moderate the web chat, um, and uh, on Skype as well. My email will be on text.

Speaker 1:        Awesome. Podcast. Thank you so much Judas and Jasper doing this because this is taboo and people need to know about it and I’m glad we had this chance. Pleasure. Thank you. All right. Thank you. Thanks for listening to this episode of smart sex, smart love. I’m dr Joe court and you can find me on Joe kort.com. That’s J O E K O R t.com. See you next time.

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