Jennifer Hurvitz on What You Need To Do To Stay Married From A Divorce Coach Who Knows! – Smart Sex Smart Love

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This week’s guest on Smart Love, Smart Sex is bestselling author, podcaster and Certified Divorce & Relationship Coach, Jennifer Hurvitz. Host of the popular, ‘Doing Divorce Right’ podcast, Jennifer (divorced for five years) thinks couples should try super hard to make their marriage work if kids are involved. “Being in love is a choice, not a feeling,” she says. “You choose to show up for that person!” Jennifer says that after her divorce, she was “surprised” that while she doesn’t miss her “Was-bund,” she does miss her family being together more than she thought she would.

She believes that to make a marriage work you have to, “put your ego aside and your kids first!” Hear Joe and Jennifer discuss what a divorce can really look like, and, if your marriage is truly over, how to navigate back into the world of dating.

Connect with Jennifer Hurvitz :
Website | Facebook

Speaker 1:        Welcome to smart sex, smart love. We’re talking about sex goes beyond the taboos and talking about love goes beyond the honeymoon. I’m dr Joe court. Thanks for tuning in.

Speaker 3:        [inaudible]

Speaker 1:        today our show is titled what you need to do to stay happily married from a divorce coach who knows your relationships don’t have to be a disaster. This week I’m chatting to bestselling author, podcaster and certified divorce and relationship coach Jennifer hermits. Jennifer is renowned for teaching how to have a successful marriage or navigate through a divorce known for her no nonsense approach to all things relationships. She’s proud to say she’s made quite the career out of pretty disastrous circumstances. Her own divorce in 2014 host of doing divorce right podcast. Jennifer lives in Charlotte with her two teenage boys through her popular blog, the truth, hermits and weekly podcasts. Jennifer helps people understand what a happy divorce can look like and how to dip your toes back into the dating world. We’re going to talk about, we’re going to, we’re going to talk about communication, sex and all things relationship. Welcome Jennifer.

Speaker 4:        Hi. Thanks for having me.

Speaker 1:        Yeah, thanks for coming out. I really appreciate it. So

Speaker 4:        glad to be here.

Speaker 1:        Yeah, thank you. So, um, your book, what are, could a, should a divorce coaches guide to stay married? Can you tell us why the title,

Speaker 4:        where do I start? Oh my gosh, there’s so much to tell you. Well, this is my second book. So my first book, I decided right after my divorce that I just write a book to make me feel better. It was cathartic. It felt good. I was like, you know what, I write a book. The second one was really more for people who were looking, um, thinking contemplating, um, in that like gray area where they’re like thinking about maybe getting divorced. Not really quite sure. That’s why I started thinking the book was for. Um, and then it ended up being for like really for married couples. It’s funny, I had people say to me, do you regret this? Do you know, the, the titles really sound like a lot of regret. I don’t regret getting divorced. Um, I regret what I did to my kids. Um, so that may be if I’m going, if I’m going too fast, you’re doing too much talking, just give me a, give me a shout out.

Speaker 4:        But, um, you know, I wrote this book because I wanted to give people a real insight into what divorce truly looks like from a perspective of someone who’s gone through it. And I wanted people to know that the grass is not greener, it is not greener. And so what’s your thinking about going, you know, getting a divorce, stop, breathe and think really hard because a fun, you know, and I think that coming from a person who’s divorced, um, it’s a much different lens to see it and to hear it and to understand it. Because if you haven’t gone through it, you just have

Speaker 1:        [inaudible] now you do say you do say don’t ever wait. You say don’t ever advocate staying in emotionally or physically abusive man. Okay. So can you talk about that?

Speaker 4:        Yeah. That’s the first chapter of my book. The first right out of the gate, I say I do not, I’m not saying to ever stay in emotionally or physically abusive marriage or relationship. Get out immediately. That’s not what I’m saying here. But if there’s a glimmer of hope, if there’s that light, that chance, that little glimmer, especially if you have children. I always say to my clients, look, you need to do the work you need to go and for yourself and for your children, you need to put the work in because marriage is work. Relationships are work, divorce is work, happy. Divorce is work. All work just depends on where you are, right? So why would you, why would you take that leap right into this divorce world when you can work on what you have in front of you? I took that lead too soon and I ended up, um, I’m lucky. I’m lucky. Lucky, lucky. I’m in a happy, happy, amical divorce. Divorce, which most people are not.

Speaker 1:        I know you are lucky. What do you think about these high conflict divorces? Those are what I think. I think divorce has, I agree. Never good for kids. But the research shows that after two years, as long as the couple stays friendly and can co-parent, the kids are going to be okay. But the high conflict and the parental alienation crap, it’s awful

Speaker 4:        guy. I just, I have to tell you, I just spoke to ginger genteel, who I’m speaking of parental alienation. She wrote the documentary erasing families, which is devastating. It’s after didn’t have her on your show. It’s absolutely devastating and it makes me, my children, my whole body, high conflict, divorce, look at, I’ve got news for you. It’s not, there’s nothing fun about divorce. There’s nothing easy about divorce. And most divorces unfortunately are high conflict. So when you say that statistic about two years of being, you know, when a good, healthy, whatever, amicable divorce for your kids, what are the chances of that happening? So you’ve really got to think before you take this job. And I’m telling you before I, before I got divorced, I had no clue. I thought, Oh, you know what? It’ll be fine. My kids will be fine. I’ll start dating and it’ll be great. No problem. Mark and IMAX. I was going to call my husband. We are best.

Speaker 1:        I love that. Wait your was Ben. I love that. That’s so funny. Sorry, go ahead. Yeah,

Speaker 4:        I love it. Right? But here’s the thing, we’re great friends and it still sucks. So you have to imagine, um, you know, I didn’t have a, I went to marriage counseling. My counselor was married, I went to divorce coaching. My divorce coach was married. I mean, like everyone, my parents married, my sister married everybody that their lenses that were what they were, the information they were giving me was through their lens, was a varied lens. It wasn’t a divorce lens. So of course they wanted what was best for me, right? But now my book is for people to see, look, this is from a divorce coaches lens. I see it every day and I’ve lived it sync before you do this. You know, um, and I don’t know if you read it yet, but I’m pretty wrong and I’m pretty real. And I laid out and I’m a glove. This is what you’re going to go through. Not only financially, not only, you know, but you’re physically, but I’m talking about like the nitty gritty of what your kids are going to go through. Like I didn’t think my kids would lose their friends. I thought I would, I’m sure I’m going to lose relationships. My friends are going to change my children’s lives. They lost their fine. But things like that, you know, like you just don’t think about it.

Speaker 1:        25 years ago I did a couples workshop and there was the lesbian couple and I, we go around the room and why you here and what brings you here? And people were willing to share and they said, um, I remember this so vividly. Um, they said, we’re here to break up. And I said, um, this is a couples therapy someone or you’re probably in the wrong place. And they both looked at me very sternly and said, no, we’re in the right place because we want to stay friends and we want to uncouple before uncoupling was even a word, right? That we want to uncouple in a way that’s healthy and stay connected. And I loved it. They’ve taught me something,

Speaker 4:        the chills, I have the chills right now because I really think that my favorite people to actually work with are like the younger, like very five years by six, seven years. So I can talk to them about, because that’s when everybody’s like, God, God like this. He doesn’t light my fire anymore, blah, blah, blah. I’m like, really? Okay, let’s talk to those guys. And then it’s the people who are married like 15 or 20 years and they’re like, you know what? We just, we want to end. We’re not happy. We’re in a Loveless sexless marriage. Help us. And that’s when I sit down and say, look, if you’re not happy and you’re in a love affects with marriage and it’s now working, let’s do this, right? Let’s do divorce. Right? Let’s get it right. Let’s do it amicably. Let’s have your children be in a successful divorce. You can do it, you can do it. Right. Um, but those are my choices for people. I’m like, look, if you’re coming to see me, you’re either staying married and working at it or you’re getting divorced. Happily.

Speaker 1:        So when you say, all right, so when you say divorce happily and you can do it right, can you say how,

Speaker 4:        Oh my God. Right? I’m like, I wish I had a magic wand. I wish I had a magic wand. Here’s the thing, it takes two people. So if I have clients come to me or if I have people call me into like my ex husband is or my ex wife is blah, blah, blah, she’s, you know, awful and narcissist. I hate that word by the way. Um, because I think it’s overdiagnosed and I think that there’s only 1% of the population that are truly narcissist. Um, if you’re a person that’s, you know, writes with your person is not really diagnosed as a narcissist, please don’t use that word. But I have clients who come to me and they said, Oh my gosh, and it’s high conflict. I’m not your person. Um, if you’re in a high conflict divorce, you need a high conflict mediator or, um, therapist. But I do have people who come to me and they’re like, look, we want to be friends. It takes two people. The we is so important. It takes two people. You can’t do a happy divorce if only one of you wants to be happy. You can’t, you know, it’s just like being in a happy marriage. How can you be in a successful happy marriage if only one of you wants to put the work in? Right?

Speaker 1:        So what do you say? Okay, so you try, you try to put the work in, it doesn’t work. So now they get a divorce and now you’re single and you’re out there. And what do you tell newly divorced people that are out in the scene? Maybe it’s been even before the apps and other on Grindr and Tinder and whatever, you know?

Speaker 4:        Oh sure. Oh God, yeah. Don’t even start. I could go for days. We could could, we could have a podcast for weeks on this. Yeah. You know what? Here’s the thing. I also tell my, my people, my clients, I want them to wait a year. I think it’s really important to get to know you again as a single person. You know there’s a grieving process. I know you know this to divorce is like a death actually acquainted to, you know, you have those stages, stages of grief. You can’t be able, and I trust me, it’s in my book, I made all kinds of mistakes. I would love people to learn from my mistakes. Please, you know, dating immediately. My God, why did, I mean I made so many, so many mistakes, but you can’t date eight if you’re not. If you don’t take accountability and you don’t take some kind of responsibility for what you did in your marriage, why? If people would come to me, they’re like, it was all his fault. It was all really, no, no, no. It takes two,

Speaker 1:        right? I always say to my couples, how are you contributing to this nightmare? Not now. Your partner is contributing to it. What are you doing? And then they stop and they can think about it.

Speaker 4:        You have to write. Don’t you have to take some academies?

Speaker 1:        Absolutely. Yes. Even if it’s just your own, with the way you’re reacting to your partner is your accountability. It’s not their fault. You’re reacting the way you do. What about you?

Speaker 4:        And if you can’t, go ahead, I’m sorry, go ahead. I just feel like if you can’t, that’s the first thing you have to get. You have to take some accountability for what you’ve done in your marriage. Secondly, you can’t date anybody in a healthy fashion if you don’t know who you are as a single person because your life as a married person is quite different than it is as a single person. So you need to get to know who you are before you can expect anybody else to fall in love with you or the person that they’re. Right.

Speaker 1:        Do you think there’s still stigma toward people who are divorced the way it always was?

Speaker 4:        I mean, don’t get me started unfortunately. I mean, I think this is really crazy too. I think demographically, I’ve seen, I’ve talked to people all over the country where people in certain places say, I’m like, I know my, my, my closest friends still talk to me and I see people in other areas that are like, Oh my God, no one gets divorced here. So I’m happy to be in this house. Um, not to say the South isn’t fabulous. I’m really happy here. It’s lovely. But very few people talk about are openly, um, accepting of divorce here. It’s just the way it goes. I don’t know what it is. I lost all my friends, but then again, I talked to people that they had locked all my friends too. So, um, and the thing is that’s crazy to me is that I am in the most amicable divorce, amicable divorce, a good ever see, and I still lost my friends. I still want,

Speaker 1:        because I think it’s like, if they think it’s contagious, you know, it’s like people who stopped drinking.

Speaker 4:        Yep.

Speaker 1:        Yeah. Oh, you said it’s in your book.

Speaker 4:        Yeah, I wrote that chapter. It’s not contagious.

Speaker 1:        Yeah, I didn’t see that. I love it.

Speaker 4:        Yeah. That, that might’ve been my book, but I had a friend that I have friends in second, you know, like my husband doesn’t want me to go out with you. I was like, excuse me, like this is, I’m not kidding. This is for real. So I had a girlfriend who actually wrote me an email that said, I would love to still be friends with you, but I’m not allowed.

Speaker 1:        Yeah, I’ve heard that. I’ve heard that. Yeah. Yeah. No, I’ve heard clients talk about that. So wait, let me ask you, you say you say not to date, but what about sex? Can you hook up with people the first year?

Speaker 4:        I’m all for that look good. Go for it. Here’s the thing. You know what it’s, but here’s the problem. So you notice, here’s the problem, women, and I think this is correct me if I’m wrong. Women have sex and they get emotionally. Yeah. Immediately. Immediately. Then it can affect their like, who cares? Bye bye. Leave. Am I right?

Speaker 1:        Yeah, no, it’s true. In the gay community and the lesbian community, so different. I mean of course we’re stereotyping, but gay men having sex with other men, it’s just a transaction like, yeah, that was fun. Okay. See ya may never see you again. Yeah. But with women it can be different.

Speaker 4:        Safe. I would love to have everyone to be safe about it too. Like I’m telling you, my first year out of the gate was I got right into a relationship. It was worse than my divorce, the breakup. It was the dumbest thing I ever did. I introduced him to my kids like an idiot. That’s another thing. I don’t let anyone introduce you. I’m sorry. If there’s not a ring on your finger, you should not be introducing your, your people to that you’re dating to your children. Agree. I’m really tough with my clients.

Speaker 1:        No, I’m, I, I do agree with you’re very protective of children. That’s what I’m hearing.

Speaker 4:        Yes. Yes. Oh, it, I am an advocate. Everything I do in my court, everything. I write, everything I breathe, everything I live. It’s for kids. You’re coming to see me. Go ahead. You’re coming to see me. If you’re coming to see me, you better know that I’m putting your kids first.

Speaker 1:        Well, sometimes if couples are fighting so much, I asked them to take pictures of their kids out of their wallet or on the phone and put it on a table between us. Now I have this flight in WWE and they’re watching you. You know, what does it feel like? You know, be conscious of that because people aren’t conscious when they’re fighting. They’re not even thinking about even the animal. When I fight with my husband and we don’t fight as much as we ever used to, but I was 27 years, we still have things and when we fight, the dog goes under the bed. She gets scared. Imagine what your kids feel, you know?

Speaker 4:        Yes. You’re so smart. You know what I do to another trick when I tell my clients when they’re talking to each other, if they’re in a high conflict situation to use the children’s names.

Speaker 1:        Oh, I love that

Speaker 4:        saying, I have to pick up so and so at four o’clock and you are so mean. I can’t believe it, but no, no. I have to get Jonah at four. I’m sorry that you don’t think that Zach needs his medicine by using the kids’ names. You immediately trigger that point in there. Hopefully if they’re human beings, you put a name, you know, you associate the children, but same thing as a picture what you do, right?

Speaker 1:        Yeah. Yes. I love it.

Speaker 4:        Giving them. Yeah. Yeah. It’s just so sad. The whole thing makes me, I mean, I still to this day, I’ve been divorced, what, five years? And I still everyday think to myself, what did I do to my kids? And I think any divorce parent that doesn’t feel that way,

Speaker 1:        even when I work with gay men who leave their marriages because they’re gay and they’re straight wives, they always regret it and they say, I don’t regret I’m gay and I’m with the right partner. But I regret that I had to do that to my kids. It’s the same thing.

Speaker 4:        Of course. Of course. Of course. You know, it’s funny. Um, yeah I have, it’s not funny, but yeah, totally. I, it’s not that I regret. People say to me all the time, well, why don’t you get back together with your husband? And I’m like, I don’t want him. I had a great boyfriend. We’ve been together three years. It’s not, it’s not Mark that I miss. It’s my family.

Speaker 1:        Yeah. Yeah. Oh that’s important. Yeah. So that’s important to hear. Cause I think people might hear and I was thinking the same thing, that maybe you missed him, so that’s helpful to you. God. No, no, no. I don’t want him around me all the time. The guy I’m dating is just like him and they’re good friends and I say to them, you guys should go out. Can I can’t take the two of you. I mean, I’m telling you what, it’s like I married my house. It’s crazy.

Speaker 4:        It’s true. I don’t want to get back together with him.

Speaker 1:        But you missed the family.

Speaker 4:        Yes. I could cry. Thinking about going back to when I public speak and I go around the country, I cry. People are, why is she crying? I have to stay on stage. I’m like, I’m talking about my kids.

Speaker 1:        Yeah. You know what people don’t think about and it’s not talked about enough. My sister divorced her husband after many, many years and uh, I, it affected me because I saw those kids every single week. And when they got divorced, I lost every other week. I, every other week. And then sometimes more because they would take vacations. It was one, it was the most painful thing that happened to me and I was just the uncle. It was horrible.

Speaker 4:        Can you imagine? And so do you talk to them fillers?

Speaker 1:        Oh yeah. We all still talk and everything, but the relationships changed because, and they were so young and even my sister, I remember she regretted it. Not, she didn’t regret divorcing her ex husband. She regretted the family disbanding. You know, just like,

Speaker 4:        I don’t say, I don’t think people should stay in their marriage for their children. Absolutely. I mean, no, that’s silly. I wrote an article for, um, Oh gosh, I think about staying in a sexless marriage for your kids. You should not stay in a marriage for your kids. That’s not what I’m saying, but I am saying, think of, think about them for God’s sakes.

Speaker 1:        Yeah, no, I love that. Right. Because if, if people stay in a marriage for the kids, the adult kids come into my office and say, I knew it and I wish they would’ve just divorced cause it was a nightmare and I felt the burden of carrying their marriage. So that’s a good advice to say don’t stay just for the kids, but it’s a good reason to pause.

Speaker 4:        It’s a good, there is a pause and it’s a good reason to do some damn work because here’s the thing, like, here’s the thing too, like the marriage is fixable. Sex with marriages. You know this, they are fixable right now with the way that we have so many good resources for you example, you’re a great base of resource. No one has an excuse for not doing something to fix, like to at least try to fix their marriage. Sex coaches, sex therapists, everywhere you look. Do you know that, um, sexless marriage is Google just 21,000 times every month? No, I didn’t know that. The term sexist marriage, because people are everywhere. Any people are, they’re crying for help. So everyone feels, I have friends that say to me, or even clients say to me, you know, Oh my gosh, something’s wrong with me. I haven’t had sex him. Wait a minute, honey. I’m like, welcome to, you know, you’re singing to the everybody. This is not, this is not new,

Speaker 1:        right? Couples don’t admit it. You know, I was talking to somebody, I was and this woman didn’t know who I was and she was going on and on about her hot husband and she showed us her picture, the picture of him and G he was totally hot and then we were drinking and um, she found out I was a sex therapist and by the third drink she grabbed me and pulled me aside and said, we haven’t had sex in three years. Can you refer me to somebody I know and I didn’t have any judgment. Turner, I get it. We have to lie because it’s embarrassing. And people judge.

Speaker 4:        Yes, yes they do. But you know what? Here’s the funny thing about it. I, this is so crazy because I tell people all the way, I was in Mark and I were like totally sexist. But like I said, I just, I said, I can’t swear, but I went to our therapist or our, he wasn’t a sex coach. I should’ve gone there. We went to a family therapist and, and he said, just know you need to start by going home and holding hands. I say this when I’m speaking, so I could say here, I think, but, and that therapist said you could start by holding hands tonight and we hadn’t had sex. I’m like, I think it was eight months. And I looked at a therapist and I said, look, if you’re not getting paid, if he doesn’t sleep with me, you don’t sleep with me. He’s not gonna

Speaker 1:        you’re like a comedian. You have really good one line talking points. So wait, let me ask you, I don’t blame you. So what about people case, another divorce. And how do you coach them to get over their first date? Sex earned for sex nerves, you know?

Speaker 4:        Okay. Did you read, I don’t know if you’ve read that. I have a chapter in my book too about how like I went into the bathroom. Can I talk about this? I don’t know.

Speaker 1:        Oh, totally. Yes.

Speaker 4:        Okay, good. So I had my first, after my, my first time I had sex after getting divorced or separated and I went into the bathroom and I cried. I took a towel and I was sobbing into this towel and I was like, get your shit together to always work. Sorry. Keep your crap together, Jennifer. It’s like, what is wrong with you? I could swear. I was like, what is going on with you? It was the most, it was a craziest experience because for what, 13 years and now I have to be with someone else who, I mean, I never thought to myself someone else was going to see my boobs. If someone else was going see the star, my stomach, someone else was going to see me. I’m like, unless you’re gonna be a stripper. But I mean, I never thought about those things. It’s just the most, it’s just, it’s just overwhelming. It was just overwhelming for me. Um, and it’s different now. Dating is different now. Like when we were dating, I mean, Oh my God, it’s so scary. It’s just, I could tell you the dates. I’ve had restraining orders and, and Oh,

Speaker 1:        here’s what I want to know. You’re the perfect person to ask this question. I ask it all the time. Why are there not coffee table books about bad dating experiences? Why aren’t people running? There’s such funny stories. I think everybody should have a story you book. But I have so many stories of my own dating and my twenties of all the guys I dated, they’re funny. I should do that. I showed, but I think everyone should. When

Speaker 4:        my next book is called, um, I’m working

Speaker 1:        on, I called the risks of romance, um, nightmares, nightmares of its title, but to the sometimes like tread nightmares of a divorce coaches dating guide or whatever. But I’m telling all of my nightmare. I mean I had a guy licked me my face, liquor shaking my hand, like pulled me into him, licked me, and I was like, I called my mom and she was reading my blog that I wrote about it. She said she was crying, laughing so hard. I’m like not be funny. That’s great that you’re writing that book and that all your books sound good. But that one’s going to be a really, Oh, so what do you, what are the signs when someone’s not ready to date again after divorce?

Speaker 4:        You know what? I had the signs. I just feel like it, you know, you know, I feel like you know yourself, but here’s a problem. This is my biggest problem with people. They don’t want to know. No one listens and nobody wants to be told. You have to figure it out for yourself. No one, you can’t tell your friends. I don’t think you should date that guy or that you’re not ready because they, everyone thinks they are. Um, I’ve found that over and over again. No one wants to hear that. They’re not ready. So, you know, I think that you just have to give yourself a timeline and say, look like I need a year. I really need a year to get myself together. Um, I just think you do. I don’t think anybody’s ready until after a year at least.

Speaker 1:        I think you’re right. I think it makes a lot of sense about a lot of things you need a year off just to get to know yourself and get your bearings, right. Yeah.

Speaker 4:        Yeah. Oh my gosh. Yeah. I did not do that. It was the biggest mistake ever made. Biggest mistake ever made? Well, people ask. No. It’s kind of like, what is, if you could tell me like three big mistakes you made when you, you know, like number one was dating too soon. Number two was introducing my kids to the guys I was dating. Um, it was devastating for them because you have to understand they’ve already lost her dad, right. In order to divorce. Then they meet this guy data for a year and they thought he was great, um, until after I broke up with him and they’re like, he was the biggest loser. Great. Great. Okay. Then, you know, that’s awful to introduce your kids to someone they’re going to lose again because you have to remember, um, I really do feel strongly about this. I, I don’t believe you, usually your listeners are going to go, she’s crazy and we don’t like her anymore. I am not a fan of blending families.

Speaker 1:        Yes, I agree. I mean, I met a lot of my therapy cases come from those kinds of situations because people don’t know how to navigate.

Speaker 4:        Yeah. Blended families are possible. They really are. The statistics are very, um, um, unfortunately very grim and of divorce and blended down to 72%. It’s, it’s, and here’s the thing. Um, my boyfriend and I, for example, have been dating three years. Our kids have never met. People think I’m nuts. They think I’m crazy. We up. We both have teenagers. Um, my boyfriend and I, he’s met my kids love him. They’ve met and I, I know his kids, but our children themselves have never been in the same place.

Speaker 1:        But don’t you think that blended families don’t work because there’s no guide? There’s no, um, there really isn’t a lot out there to really say, here’s what needs to happen. Like for instance, I’ll tell people the step parent should not be disciplining the other parent’s child. You know, th the children need blood needs to discipline blood. And there’s little tiny rules like that. It’s still hard, but it can be manageable if some, if people know what to do now, do not agree with that.

Speaker 4:        Well, here’s the problem is that, that’s really sounds great in theory. It’s beautiful when you have a book and I loved it. That’s exactly what I tell my people too, but then they get in the house and then so-and-so’s kid hits the other one’s kid and that, or take some out of there or yelled at and you always are going to stick up for your own. It’s human nature. You’re always going to love your child more than that other kid. I don’t care what anybody says. They can come to me and I want to know. I love, I love my boyfriend’s children. No you don’t. You may like them.

Speaker 4:        You may like that kid. You know you didn’t like that kid that just living in your house with you that you don’t even know. That’s fine. You will never take that kid side over your own child. I don’t care if your kid robs a bank, so why would you? Here’s the thing I say to my guys, what are you doing? You’re not going to marry this guy I’m talking to. Even if you make, even if you get married, do you know that I have friends that come to me, they, they’re like, why didn’t you tell me not to blend families? I’m like, [inaudible] you just have to do get backlash for this. Crazy. You’re crazy. You’re crazy. I can’t believe it. Everyone’s, everyone blends. Well, if we’re going to be fine, and then a year later they come and they’re like, I’m so sorry.

Speaker 1:        I know everybody wants to, you know what you’re kind of saying it’s like a maybe a little bit of a cultural myth like happily ever after as you know that it sounds good in theory, but when you do it, it’s, it’s a bunch of strangers in the house to each other and it doesn’t always go well. Yeah.

Speaker 4:        I mean, Joel, you know what it’s like. I remember when he used to go to your, I know we have to leave soon, but even when you used to go sleep over at a friend’s house, that weird feeling of like, Oh my God, I’m in someone else’s house and I don’t really know what I’m doing here, but I get to leave in the morning and that, yeah. Was kind of funky in the snow, kind of weird and smells like [inaudible] whatever. Like you’re saying, it’s really true.

Speaker 1:        What would you like the main message before we sign off and I want you to tell people where to find you. What’s the main message you want people to get out of this interview?

Speaker 4:        You know what? I really think that this is my, what I, my favorite, my favorite line of all is that, um, that being in love for me, it’s not a feeling, it’s a choice. So I think that that you should really just love, like you wake up every morning, you pick your underwear, you pick your bra, you pick your whatever, you pick the person next to you and you choose. It’s all about choices. And you choose to love the person and show up for that person each and every day. And I think that even if you’re divorced, you show up every day for those kids and you make a choice to be a good parent and you put your ego aside and you put your kids first. And if you can’t do that, you’ve got a problem.

Speaker 1:        That is beautiful. That is beautiful. I love how serious you can be and how funny you can be. Your clients are really lucky. Honestly, I think I’m a lot like you. I can be really serious, but I love to take dark things and make them laughable because otherwise they’re going to fester and depression and it’s horrible. So it’s good to laugh about this. So where can people find, so where can people find you?

Speaker 4:        You can find me on my website. It’s easiest. Everything is there. It’s Jennifer Herbert’s dot com. Um, my books are all over the place and my podcast is doing divorce rights. Um, and that’s it. I mean, I’m just, you know, all around,

Speaker 1:        wait, wait, wait. No, no. Let’s talk about your books. Your latest book is what, or could a, should a divorce coaches guide to stay married? Your other book is called one happy divorce. Hold the bullshit, which I love. And then doing divorce, right? Or avoiding it altogether. Podcast. So, no, it’s all on your website. Great. But you have some good stuff going on out there.

Speaker 4:        Thank you very much. I appreciate it. I really like the end. You know what? I just got a check talk in Charlotte.

Speaker 1:        Oh my God. Congratulations.

Speaker 4:        Thank you. I’m very excited about that. I’m nervous, but it was, it was awful. It was a horrible process.

Speaker 1:        I am so excited for you. I can’t wait to watch it and I thank you for being on the show. Thanks for having me. Thanks for listening to this episode of smart sex, smart love. I’m dr Joe court and you can find me on Joe that’s J O E K O R

Speaker 3:        See you next time.

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